Creating Teams That Can Achieve Anything : Rob McKay Interviews Amrit Sandhar – “The Engagement Coach”

Posted on 9th June 2015 | Interviews

Creating Teams That Can Achieve Anything : Rob McKay Interviews Amrit Sandhar – “The Engagement Coach”

There’s a common misconception amongst some of my clients that’s been bugging me. Over the last fifteen years of my recruitment career, I’ve been very fortunate to have worked on some fairly pivotal leadership search projects with some major organisations where the importance of bringing in the right leader really does have huge implications for the business. In some cases it’s genuinely been make or break. It’s when working on such a business critical projects I begin to realise just how important finding the right team fit is to achieving a successful outcome for the client.

The term ‘cultural fit’ is banded about rather too generously in recruitment circles I find. Rather to achieve a cultural match with a business critical search project, one has to actually understand what that culture is in the first place and this really isn’t something that can be achieved by a half hour fireside chat with the Chief Exec or simply emailing over a Job Description. Affording the time that a thorough briefing for this kind of search project deserves is something too few clients are willing to allow, with too many executive recruiters being far too willing to just accept a poor brief so as to avoid confrontation with the client rather than to insist on the detail and to really invest the time to listen, probe, question and truly consult which is after all what they’re being paid for. The question of access to information is a responsibility that lies on the shoulders of both parties.

A few years ago I was asked to undertake a major search project for two executive board members for one of the UK’s top ten charities. With royal trustees on the interview panel and interviews being held in Buckingham Palace, I knew that understanding the DNA of the people would be critical to the successful delivery of the search. To get to grips with the culture of the organisation I decided to immerse myself in the charity, taking time to talk to staff, volunteers and fundraisers way before I even heard what the trustees and the board were looking for in a candidate. By truly spending time listening to the people I got a sense of what was driving this organisation and how the people operating at the front end of the charity were so committed to their cause that they were prepared to risk their lives for it without any financial compensation. The charity was the Royal National Lifeboat Institution.

It was then I realised the true meaning of ‘engagement’ and the power of what can be achieved when people share a common purpose. But creating engaged teams isn’t as simple as finding an experienced leader with the right technical competencies and skill set for the job. It’s about finding someone who really gets excited by the vision of the organisation, genuinely lives and breathes the values and is prepared to ‘go-extra’ because they really want to and not because someone is pressuring them to.

Assessing candidates on these principles isn’t easy though as much of what we’re talking about is subjective and as much as I’d like to think that some well thought out competency questions would do the job, they fail to really address the question of ‘engaging’ leadership without investing time up front to understand what are the character traits required to create employee engagement in that specific organisation. I am of course talking about values.

It’s at this point I often get met with blank faces by the HRD or CEO who’s briefing me, but even if you haven’t realised what they are yet, your organisation has its own unique values and once you know what they are, your talent strategy just got a whole lot easier.

I talked to one of the UK’s foremost thought leaders on the subject matter of employee engagement about his view on what values based selection can do for employee engagement. Amrit Sandhar is the Managing Director of The Engagement Coach and was previously the Head of Engagement for Asda in the UK...

The Interview

Q: Amrit, thanks for talking with us. Why do so many organisations struggle to achieve truly engaged workforces in your opinion?

Thanks Rob, it’s a pleasure to be here. Well, let’s just understand how big the problem is. Deloitte recently conducted a global survey of companies (through their Human Capital Trends report 2015) and found the biggest issues facing these companies is culture and engagement. I know from my work with the Sunday Times Best Companies to Work for, that ‘Leadership’ is the most highly correlated factor to engagement. It stands to reason that, on the whole, something isn’t working within our current leadership, which seems to be causing issues. It also stands to reason then, that if we can improve leadership, this will in turn positively impact upon engagement. Recruiting the ‘right’ leaders is critical. Now, many companies are conducting employee engagement surveys. These are annual surveys typically. By the time companies have analysed their data, months have passed. By the time the outputs of the survey have been shared, many colleagues across the organisation can no longer relate to the outputs, as things have moved on. Then there is the ‘industry’ that we seem to be making out of action planning, after which, very few people can actually tell you what changed as a result of the survey. Engagement is a measure of how well we are doing the day job. I believe, what is needed is a quick turnaround of analysing the data, sharing the outputs with colleagues, gaining their feedback and input, and having a corporate action plan made up of two to three actions, that are monitored and measured through focus groups and colleague feedback. This would make a massive difference. This is where many companies are getting stuck.

Q: It seems like a difficult thing to measure?

There are many organisations measuring employee engagement. Many companies end up asking generic questions, used by the survey provider, but you need to know what you want from your survey. Are the questions relevant to what your company is looking to understand? Is benchmarking important to you? We know context is critically important, so knowing what is currently going on in the organisation/ industry, that might impact upon how people are feeling, is important, and is this something that would provide valuable insights of how better to engage?

Real time feedback is important and whilst there are lots of technological solutions, there’s nothing like getting out, meeting people and listening, truly listening to how they feel. I always say, I wouldn’t ask my wife to complete a survey if I wanted to know how she feels! I appreciate that this approach might be impractical in some organisations, but asking fixed questions, confines how much someone can truly tell you about how they feel. The questions are designed around making it simpler to analyse, not so much on getting to the heart of how people necessarily feel.

Q: How do values play a part in creating engaged teams?

One question that always stood out for me when I carried out insights to boardrooms was within the ‘Leadership’ factor. Senior Leaders truly living the values of the organisation; I saw many results where this was low and you could see the impact throughout all the other questions of the survey. Leaders lead; they demonstrate the values and when they truly do, you can pretty much guarantee that you have the foundations of a great team. They must be lived and breathed through the behaviours of all leaders, with the ability to review and challenge when these standards are not upheld, and this must be applicable to all. 

This will in turn impact upon the culture of the company. Having a strong culture and allowing others to see what it’s like, will allow potential colleagues to make an informed decision. Google has a strong culture. It may not work for everyone, but it defines how they do things and attracts like minded people, creating harmony in teams. Zappos actually pay people to leave within the first four weeks, so they can ensure their culture stays strong. Recruiting people with shared values (leaders and colleagues) will help in making your workplace a great place to work.

Q: Having taken the time to find out what your organisational values are, what next and how can companies use that knowledge to their advantage?

The values are one thing, and very important, but then equally important is describing the behaviours that demonstrate what you value. This will allow everyone to understand and adhere to this standard. Once agreed, this needs to penetrate every aspect of the business, from induction, to managing/ appraising, promoting and succession planning, to performance management and eventually dismissal. 

There is no point in stating what you value, when you are going to contradict that through promoting someone who does anything but live those values. Consistency of HR processes to align to your values is critical. What does this achieve? Well, it is far easier getting things done with people who believe what you believe. Little time is exhausted on internal politics, or infighting, with the energy being used to get things done. I liken values to engine oil. Whilst you have the pistons and the rest of the car intact and ready, it cannot perform without good engine oil, that’s your values.

Q: Why is employee engagement so topical right now?

The current war for talent and need for greater performance is driving this to some degree, but also the great work done through the ‘Engage for Success’ movement brought data and insights that made people listen. There is another aspect that is raising this as an issue and that is social media. Sites such as Glassdoor are highlighting and giving colleagues a voice of what it’s truly like at their place of work. This is impacting upon external brand and perception. With competition so fierce and the war for talent so intense, people’s perception about your brand will help decide who they go and work for, and who others want to do business with.

There is a debate going on about whether this is a fad that will be over soon. I recently created my company website, and I was explaining what I do and the subject of employee engagement to the people who created it. They said something that made me laugh. ‘Isn’t that just good management practice?’. Absolutely it is. Nothing has changed over the years on the importance of good management and leadership, but what employee engagement has brought to the toolbox of HR, is a measure that has provided huge focus and importance to the function of HR. HR is now bringing something to the boardroom that everyone else can understand. The challenge is that if companies continue to survey colleagues, with very little changing year on year, as a result of taking too long to understand their survey data, too long to communicate the outputs, and a lack of clarity over action planning, colleagues will stop bothering to complete surveys and leaders will start to question whether the stats that everyone has been sold on about employee engagement really stack up. We have a huge responsibility to get this right and act upon what our colleagues are telling us, as this is getting in the way of them being able to do an outstanding job.

Q: A lot of companies measure their engagement levels through staff surveys but what actions can you take with the results?

Everyone needs to be clear about what are the two to three actions that need to be taken, after reviewing colleagues' feedback, which will have the biggest impact. This will be driven partly from the survey data but also from focus groups held afterwards, to ensure the focus is going to meet the needs of colleagues. Some organisations have employee forums or vehicles that allow for feedback and input. Getting these involved with sharing the outputs but also getting feedback on any proposed actions will help you to ensure these will make the biggest difference to colleagues. Many times I had directors in boardrooms trying to make sense of the results and proposing theories. They would ponder and come up with their hypotheses. I always used to say, ‘there is one way we can know whether this is the reason, let’s ask them’. Colleague feedback doesn’t end with the survey, it begins with it.

Q: How can companies use that knowledge in their selection process for recruiting new senior leaders with the ability to drive engagement in the business?

If your survey results show that ‘leadership’ is your biggest opportunity, with values being a particular focus, have a look at other low scoring questions to understand the ‘story’. If you pull out your worst scoring questions, there will be a theme in them. This theme will no doubt impact upon the culture that is being created as a result of the behaviours being exhibited. It is important when recruiting leaders, that this feedback is taken into account. You may need a different type of leader.

This brings up that phrase of ‘context is everything’. The leader must be recruited with an understanding of the current context and future need. And let’s be clear, aligning values doesn’t mean reducing diversity. I am from a very different background to you, yet we will both find we have aligned values in many areas. I will bring a fresh thinking to some situations, as will you in others. Aligned values yet diverse thinking is the key.

Amrit, thank you for taking the time to talk with us.

For more information on creating winning teams by achieving workplace engagement see – www.theengagementcoach.co.uk